TRUE Exclusive: Simply Complicated | an interview with Pharoahe Monch

The task of an artist, no, the instinct of an artist, is to take the multitude of life’s complications and craft an expression of such that can be easily experienced by many; the skillful translation of that which is complicated into simple “language” is the life work of an artist.  To do this well, to refrain from snobbery while refusing to dumb down one’s message, is difficult.  Pharoahe Monch is no stranger to this tension.  Monch’s refusal to diverge from the path he has been forging since the early 90’s has led to tumultuous dealings with record labels as well as with the law.  This same dedication to purity, to simple complexity, in his music, both lyrically and sonically, has also been the trademark that has set him apart as one of the greats in underground hip hop.  Pharoahe Monch recently took some time to share how his Internal Affairs have shaped his Desire to go to W.A.R. with those who would like to see hip hop remain dumbed down, as well as how he has, is, and will continue to combat such.

Good afternoon, what’s up Pharoahe Monch?  Thank you for taking time out of your day to spend with us here at TRUE Hip Hop Magazine.  Just to get things going, where are you at right now, what’s going on in your world?

Well, [I] just wrapped up this Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) project, which is a follow up, sort of film, so to speak, to the W.A.R. album.  [PTSD] deals with what happens after a traumatic experience, to people in general, everyday people – [though] we know that the [term] more so refers to post-war soldiers.

It’s just amazing man, I just really pushed myself, really challenged myself to grow on the vocals, on the rhyme schemes, and I learned, and I think people will see growth with the record.  I’m actually like, I have [PTSD] on repeat and I am astounded by a couple of things on there, in particular.  In detail, the title song goes into a level of depression that I was going through between the Internal Affairs record and the Desire record and, uh, I had been hospitalized one time, for asthma.  After having received huge… dosages of medication, and after just being in a completely dark mental state.  And, it hasn’t been something that’s been easy to write about but I [felt] I had finally figured out how I could flip this concept in likening it to this project…

I’m going through anxiety right now, [preparing] to release this record to the world, but um, it’s just dope man and it’s [been] challenging.  One thing that I am happy about – as a fan when I listen to my favorite artists, at times they seem to recycle flows, or [stick to] formulas and you might hear something that’s a hit and say “oh, I love this record,” but a lot of times I don’t see them challenging themselves.  And like, how have they advanced? or have they stayed the same?  is this music that could be placed on five different projects?  And I know the industry has a way of settling and feeding us what’s current.  Being independent allows me a little more freedom to grow and do something risky, and I think a lot of time with risk comes brilliance man.  You can’t play it safe all the time, you know.  Theres some execution on the singing on this record that people have been, “I can’t believe it’s you” you know.

For our readers who may not be as familiar with your story, with your history as a staple in hip hop culture, can you just share how you have come to be the Pharoahe Monch before us now?

I started in a group, Organized Konfusion, released 3 LP’s under that moniker, with the incredible Prince Po.  [I then] went solo, worked on [my debut solo album] Internal Affairs, released the Simon Says record from that project, went through a lot of tumultuous legality after that and went on an extended hiatus after that before I released Desire.  I then went totally independent, founded We Are Renegades (WAR Media), put out the album with the same name, W.A.R., and I am now putting out PTSD.

One of the things that, I would like to think, defines my “brand” is the attention to detail in the lyricism and the concepts since day one.

Well, listening to your “brand” of music, one cannot help but recognize that, it seems to have a more serious tone, you seem to be saying something.  What would you say that your purpose behind making such “serious” music is?

It’s just, I think that, I am a fan of all facets, all genres, of creation and I think that even when something is not as serious, that there is a type of approach that resonates with fans.  A lot of times the radio, or the industry, or the machine, fools people.  I think it is important to be honest, even when you are having fun and being silly.

I’m a clown on Twitter.  I’m a clown on some of the up and coming projects that I’m about to do.  [Humor] is a huge, huge part of my personality.  I love comedy.  But, a lot of the issues, where we are at now, I need to be honest when I’m writing about them.  I say that to say, the mainstream is really making efforts to dumb down the genre to be more recyclable for consumers.  I just feel like it‘s a total farce, a giant lie, because when I was a kid, before I was even a teenager, I was absorbing Stevie Wonder and Marvin Gaye as well as the silly music that was targeted toward me, and I could enjoy it all.  So, to tell a human brain that [a certain type of music] is too intellectual for you, or is too adult for you, is a bit insulting.

As a teenager, I grew up fortunate that my older brother was listening to Zeppelin and Sabbath and Rush, different groups who were [before my time].  If that music was recorded 15 years [earlier], how was it that it resonated so strongly with my spirit?  Jimi Hendrix.  Those types of artists were the original artists [I looked up to].  When I decided to do art, even before thinking about rap, I knew I wanted my art to last and not be disposable.  How can I create something that 20 years from now, people say, “did you see this movie, did you see this painting, did you read this comic book, did you hear this song?”  That was my biggest thing, you know, coming into [hip hop] culture – I wanted to add to it and be original.  That was big in the Golden Era (roughly 90’s hip hop).  There was room for fans back then to be an NWA fan at the same time they were a Public Enemy fan at the same time they were a De La Soul fan.  For [the industry] to push that that’s not possible, is ridiculous.

Though you are a bit more focused, or purposeful, with your music, I have heard you say in other interviews that you see the necessity for various styles within hip hop.  Who are some of your favorite rappers/emcees outside of your conscious/underground sub-genre?

PM rattles off a few album titles, including the most recent Sean Price album, and then refocuses the question, zeroing in on the quality of music he appreciates, regardless of the title, regardless of the sub-category it might be put into.

I mean, it goes both ways.  I love the 2 Chainz record, I love the bands that make you dance, I love the Chief Keef record…  Having been doing this for a minute, I understand that it’s honesty that has always resonated with hip hop.  A lot of people try to copy 2 Chainz’ trap style, but none of them are doing it as well as he does it, because it’s a real thing for him.  Of course people can copy it and do trap records with repeated choruses and benefit off of it being trendy.  But they probably won’t really profit from it because it’s like, if that brand already exists, that cereal already exists in the grocery store and you already buy 2 Chainz cereal, it is going to be kind of hard to get you to buy the knock off… But the industry is steadfast right now, [heavy-handedly controlling the supply and demand].

Speaking of diversity, even though your albums are a cohesive body of work, there are vast differences from album to album and even track to track.  Maybe you could take us back into the various head spaces you were in when creating each of your 3 solo albums (Internal Affairs, Desire, W.A.R.).

No problem.  With Internal Affairs, that was my first solo record, I was battling things in my head.  Obviously “internal affairs” referred to the authorities, but it was really a metaphor for what was going on in my head.  You know, I just wanted to vomit out some of these thoughts and these impulses that I had; it is a very dark and aggressive record with a lot of features.  With Organized Konfusion, we weren’t really big on features, but during that time I had amassed a bunch of artists who I wanted to do songs with; IA broadcasted that; that album featured M.O.P., Busta Rhymes, Redman, Canibus, Talib and Common.  You know, it’s just chocked full of my favorite artists.

I went through legal woes after that, and because of that I was lifted up by a lot of people and circumstances and emerged with Desire, which is why that record feels a bit inspirational with songs like Desire, Push, Free and so forth and so on.  I wanted to share a little bit of what it took for me to get through those issues.

And with W.A.R., it’s more about the decision to do what you believe in, to rebel, be rebellious.  It’s kind of revolutionary, to go independent, and talk about stuff that I felt was intrinsic to us as human beings.  I felt like, “we need to evolve”.  I remember being in 4th grade and picturing 2012 very different.  Not even on some MLK Jr. shit, but on some like comic book shit.  I was just like, by now, the elite thinkers should be hovering around in white uniforms, being philosophical and [teaching others] how to preserve peace.  And the fact that we’re still discussing some of these trivial issues, to me, is disappointing.  So, the songs all have double meanings to them.  The whole project starts off with a skit in the future, talking about, “I found this information that changes everything”.  Secretly, the underlying meaning to [W.A.R.] is that I am pretty disgusted with where we are at.  And I think [where we are at] is a result of a conscious effort by the powers that be…   So the undertone found in W.A.R. is really about resisting those who [would uphold the status quo].

PM then went on a tangent discussing the importance of layers of meaning in art.  His hope is that listeners would find meaning in his music now, and would discover new meaning in his music five, ten and fifteen years down the road, possibly after great joy or great loss.

Since your latest LP, W.A.R. (We Are Renegades), was released, I have been telling everyone that you are one of very few artists in hip hop who can pull off a deeply thematic album without encroaching on corny or cheesy.  Why do you think you can pull it off while many can’t?

Right.  I don’t know.  I pay a lot of attention to that as well.  Not because I care, but because I am a fan and I think that’s important.  When I go to see a film, I expect to be educated in a sense.  You leave the film, you talk about it, you criticize it.  I do the same thing with my music, I crack on myself, I have humility, I crack on my look, I crack on my demeanor, I crack on my music.  I’m open to being meticulous about my shit.  When I do a song, a project, I work from the future backwards.

I do think Still Standing is an award winning record, and while in the moment of creating it, getting goosebumps and Jill Scott calling me, crying, saying it’s an honor that I want her on the chorus, I am thinking, “maaaaan, people are gonna love this song”.  People did love the song.  I approach it from my heart.

All that to say, I think, “if I bought this Pharoahe Monch record, is there any point where I’d call my friend and say, ‘yo, that’s cool, but you know the shit I didn’t really like…’”.  ‘Cause I’m that critical.

With PTSD it’s amazing the amount of my peers, not associates, that are like, “this is your best project ever!”  I am talking my original DJ from Organized Konfusion; he’s a fuckin’ Queensryche, Slip Knot, Metallica, rock fan, who loves all of my dark shit.  He’s like, “Yo!  This is your best record ever”.  When he said that, I am wondering, “what is striking these people in this way?”  I have to reexamine [and ask myself], “does it feel as honest as I want it to feel?”  I’m talking about difficult shit to talk about, like depression, and breakups… as well as, I have songs that are 131 bpm, the fuckin’ fastest songs I’ve ever done, the most blood-pumping, heart racing song I’ve ever done, that has this appeal to it and I have to make sure these songs have balls and yet have a wide appeal to them.  I feel I accomplished that with PTSD.

On W.A.R., on all three albums in fact, you work with a lot of amazing producers.  Who are some of your favorite producers and why?

The thing is, this question doesn’t even bring up the past, it brings to mind the people I haven’t worked with yet… but…

My choice in working with Marco Polo, and Alchemist and Lee Stone has been very calculated and purposeful.  And aside from being talented producers, they helped me shape the music for those projects.

PM then went into a healthy list of producers he has worked with (as well as some unexpected ones he wishes to work with – both mainstream and underground) and, more importantly, why he worked/works/will work with them.

It’s all very purposeful.

Why do you choose to use production from various sources as opposed to having one producer create the soundscape for the entire album?

I think that, um, we’re kind of going toward that.  I think that is a sure fire way to get your voice, and your brand, and your sound across, and I that that people have gotten away from that.  But, I do think… that I have a knack for picking [beats] that are alike arrangement wise and that sonically go together.  The thing that happens is, that it takes a little bit longer and I think those are the things that, like, this is a brilliant interview because these are the things that fans might not even be aware of: why certain projects take more time than other projects.  When working with a multitude of producers, you’re kind of sifting through [beats] for the purpose of the arrangement of an album.  An album starts off cinematic and exciting, and then you need [a beat] for the scene when a man gets murdered, and then you need escape music, and now the love scene.  So when you’re sitting with producers, you’re not necessarily looking for hot shit, you’re looking for the love scene [etc.].  It takes a little time to do, if you care.  You’re not just amassing a fucking compilation of rap records.  And all three of [my solo] projects have been albums in the original sense, where I want you to listen to this album as a whole.  I recognize that once it’s on the internet, people can be like, “I like number five,” but in my mind, I want you to know the titles and to understand the progression of the choices that were made.  So, it takes time to sit with Marco, who bangs out dope beats on the regular, to be like, “nah, WAR is the beat that fits this album, this, yes, this right here is crunchy and is this and is that and I need it to be flowy because I have a lot of words, and a lot of stuff I want to say,” you know.

Now, you have mentioned Marco Polo a couple of times.  Is he one of the producers who helped to shape the sound of PTSD?  Who all can we expect to hear on PTSD?

Um, production wise on PTSD, it was kicked off with my DJ actually.  He’s brilliant on the title track, it’s super cinematic it’s discussing kind of like, me talking myself out of a  suicidal situation.  And then Marco Polo does the intro to the album.  It’s like this manic beat, and about a manic character who’s just like losing his mind on the record.  Uh, Lion’s Share [Music] Group, I was introduced to them last year working on the W.A.R. album (they did Calculated Amalgamation), and I sat with them in the studio and they did a whole bunch of beats.  Their production is like this live, crazy, production; we worked on a song together, called Broken Again.  And bringing it home, is Lee Stone, who did Damage; I’ve been working with him for a long time.  And now [our] latest record is called Standing Ground, which I have no description for.  It’s killing me that I can’t even describe it, it’s 131 bmp, a protest record – and I have just had it on repeat, I drive to the gym listening to it, I get on the treadmill, I get on the bike, I hit the weights, all with this song on repeat.

(Due to factors out of our control, the interview was cut short, but TRUE is grateful for Pharoahe Monch’s time and feels that this is actually a fitting stopping point, leaving us and our readers on the edges of our seats, wanting more.)

As Pharoahe Monch soldiers on in his W.A.R. against the dilution of hip hop, he is faced with the challenge of dealing with one of the unfortunate psychological byproducts of war, PTSD (post traumatic stress disorder).  PTSD is the title of PM’s forthcoming EP; with PTSD Monch takes on his own demons as well as those of others and lays that long and painful process bare.  From the sound of it, based on the response of both Monch and those in his inner circle, PTSD is his best work to date and is not to be slept on.  The exact release date of PTSD is not yet set; don’t sleep.

Peace and Love,

NathanAnthony